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LLC. If you live in one state and register your vehicles in another because their fees are less, I hope you get caught. As a word of caution about domicile, if you intend to make Texas your home (which is the legal definition of domicile), you should truly make Texas your home by going above and beyond the process of selling your home in California and registering your vehicle and obtaining your driver license in Texas. The local DPS promptly presented David and Dianne with their new Texas driver licenses (paper copies to use until the laminated plastic copies arrive by mail). To add to your article and I feel correct decision1) when any of the LLC creating law firms are asked for an opinion of its legality they make none and send you a copy of your present state law re who is required to have plates in that state 2) as an insurance agent for many years I also have serious issues of using a personal Auto Policy to cover a vehicle that is a commercial enterprise. We establish Montana LLCs for you to own your vehicles for only $300, and we do it in a couple days. They say if you take the motorhome out of your home state once every three months, youre legal. Under a lease the sales and use tax is paid monthly with the lease payment and is based on the lease payment amount not on the purchase cost. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Make Sure You're Prepared for Your Texas Driver's License! You might want to search for that thread and read up on it. You learn something new every day. The Test? Sure, that 200-acre ranch property costs a cool $2 million. Some critics note they have set up tip-lines with rewards for people who spot RVs with Montana plates parked in storage yards or driveways for long periods of time. RVers Ask: What's The Best Way To Sell An RV? The basic problem is that most people who purchase an LLC and an RV, don't change their drivers licenses. When asked by the office clerk if their Jeep was their only vehicle, they answered, yes, because technically the RV belonged to the Montana LLC. We use cookies to improve security, personalize the user experience, enhance our marketing activities (including cooperating . This is one of the longest-lasting controversies in the RV world and it really has to do with the fine line between tax avoidance and tax evasion. Whats more, you dont even have to be a Montana resident to do it! Think Health Care is expensive now??? Sign up and get a free Packing List for your next trip and free perks, discounts and RV travel tips! Llcs are entirely a separate tax entity of that state. It is pretty obvious that Preston did not read all 711 prior posts in this thread, but he may want to read post #1. Again, I understand that others see this differently and have and will decide otherwise. Having a "Montana Attorney" will do you no good if that Attorney is not licensed in California and familiar with California law. Stay off of social media. Your email address will not be published. Using a Montana law firm, they created a limited liability corporation (LLC) in Montana for one purpose: to house their RV so they wouldnt have to pay sales tax. Great article! Oregon has also enter the tax battle as they substantially fined and shut down an agent who was creating LLC's in that state which also has no sales tax. It's a $750 value, and you'll walk away with a custom tax reduction plan designed specifically for you. ), you could have a big problem: The underwriters and attorneys reviewing your claim will immediately notice theres a disconnect between the name on the policy and the ownership of the vehicle. Can your domicile be in Delaware: drivers license, voting, mail forwarding address, but register your RV in Montana to safe on the registration fees? The value up to 100 percent can be written off immediately. It certainly isnt for everyone. Part of the issue here is California is going after Montana LLC with managing member(s) that are California residents. (Truly, I forget).. Thanks for any comments. Unless your agent specializes in the luxury/non-standard car market, they may not even know how to properly fill out the application to ensure your vehicle is covered when it counts. Says so in the advertisements in Trailer Life magazine, "Montana has no sales tax." Other wise, Texas doesnt care. Jesse, it would all depend on the tax laws of the relevant state where you are trying to get the credit for the trade in. I would suspect most people who do this fudge here and there when it comes to their home state. Then, all your vehicles will have Texas license plates. Sidestepping Sales Tax on Large Vehicles Updated November 5, 2020: I found this line of thoughts, decided that our daughter should read it and save it. If your main residence in another state, the practice is often considered to be tax evasion particularly in those states that have high RV sales taxes and costly RV license platesand titling fees. California has a big problem with California residents registering as Nevada Corporations. We also own 2 cars still register CA and I have CA driver license. This covid 19 situation has really put folks around here in a situation. I would definitely consider registering an LLC in MT considering my home state VLT is outrageous when youre considering buying an expensive RV and your 1st year VLT can be thousands of dollars. Its clear the benefits of saving thousands of dollars in sales and use taxes are very tempting. In Michigan, for example, owners of RVs with out-of-state plates must owners not keep their RVs in Michigan for more than 89 consecutive days. It sounds like anybody with a Montana plate might get pulled over in CA. http://www.the-signal.com/archives/14087/, (You must log in or sign up to post here. Its much less likely to attract the wrong kind of attention. Next, theyll notice that the vehicle is registered to an LLC, not to an individual. In some tax-aggressive states, like California, Colorado, and Georgia, revenue officials are even sending scouts into storage facility lots and RV parks to track down and identify any RVs or other high-dollar vehicles with Montana plates. A Montana LLC is no different than filling up your fuel tank, before entering CA, because the fuel taxes are lower in an adjoining state. Every Montana LLC is managed per the clients need. buy it! Consistency between these items, license plates and driver license, is the best way to proceed. what is the reasonable assumption here? Thom was on a contract job that started off at 6 months then had 3 months added then a month well you get the idea. . Iowa getting tough on recreational vehicle fees | TheGazette, Massachusetts Goes After RV Tax Evaders | RV Business, 2009 HR Navigator Fuel Door lock question. Is there a time factor involved? I recently bought used RV from Texas on November 6th. Insurance Ludwig Wonder why? And as another point I would like to thank those that do this illegally, so I can pay more tax for THEIR gain. Most other states strongly frown on Montana LLC RV Titling. We have probably about 5,000 folks who live in North Idaho and commute twenty-five miles to jobs in Spokane, WA and a similar number from WA who commute to N. Idaho jobs each day. Interestingly enough boats and aircraft are not taxed. Part of MOTORSPORT NETWORK. Yet the get PO Boxes and list mailing addresses that end up being a Mail Boxes Ecetera. For tax purposes an LLC is called a disregarded entity. They want their money. I purchased a new coach two weeks ago and looked at doing the same. Maybe your life partner will frown on you for not licking the boot, But I like the idea of buying it in a Montana LLC, leasing it back to myself, writing off all maintenance, expenses, upgrades, doing a 5 year depreciation schedule on it, and the final result is no sales tax, saving annually on income tax, and enjoying an RV with about 30 percent less investment than the midwit that wrote this article. The State Trooper can call Elvis if hell answer the phone, but it wont matter. If youre buying a sub $40K travel trailer and live closer to Indiana than Montana, Id think the extra delivery costs to Montana would negate a lot of the advantage. As Dianne drove through Washington State, she didnt realize she was in a speed zone. Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1. How To Insure a Car with a Rebuilt or Salvage Title, South Dakota Residency for Full-Time RVers. Its not illegal to register a mh in another state when it begins to an llc of that other state and avoid taxes of any other state. Two years later, when the Louisiana Department of Revenue caught up with Thomas, officials said he owed $49,509 in Louisiana sales tax and penalties, but Thomas appealed and won. , a 2005 Volvo tractor converted to carry the smart and tow the 5'er. I get the appeal if youre buying a $350K RV. MS resident here. Lots of state revenue collectors are mad as wet hens at the State of Montana. No problem getting insurance in LLC name and if I had wanted to finance that would not have been a problem either. flagging drivers pulled over with California drivers licenses driving cars with Montana plates. Its not an illegal act or a scam. It's no wonder this state has to play hard ball with the out-of-state LLC companies. Sure you can form an LLC in Montana and register a vehicle there. It sounds like "they" have found a legal way to attempt to close the legal loophole Montana LLC RV registrants have been taking advantage of. And theyll be sitting across the street from your house photographing you pulling in and out of your own driveway. I travel with a motor coach and jeep both owned and registered by the same Montana LLC, my drivers license is from a state other than Montana, I have a rental agreement from the Montana LLC for the motor home and the jeep. Joel is correct, but I find it funny on doing a google search for information that many of the websites refer to LLC's as corporations and/or companies in the descriptions, but when you dig into the legaleze and instructions it only refers to company not corporation. I do not remember the thread but you should be able to find it. Florida is one of the few states that does not charge property tax on cars so why would they care? Just do a Google search on Montana LLCs and youll see how they are trying to drum up business by touting LLCs that allow you to buy no sales tax motorhomes or tax free.. And they will be happy to collect a nice commission on the premium. I ran the idea past my son who is both a lawyer and someone who can always find the cheapest way to do things. 26. 3 min read 1. As an aside, it is important to remember that paying Texas sales tax helps to fund the local Livingston, Texas, community, a low-income, rural area, 70 miles northeast of Houston. some state revenue agencies consider to be tax evasion. Phil & Evy Somsen Forming an LLC does not create a business nor does it create a corporation. Is used in combination when the weight of such combination exceeds 26,000 pounds or 11,793 kilograms gross vehicle or registered gross vehicle weight. California law says that you have to register the car within 20 days of entry into California. Anybody can form an LLC in Montana. Indeed, forming LLCs and registering RVs like this is a big business out there. Forgetting the Montana tax avoidance scheme, buying at RV is usually the second most expensive purchase you will ever make after buying a house. Drove it to Ca where we live. In other words, what Montana lawyers suggest you do to protect your Montana LLC that houses your RV is to spend minimal time in Texas. I doubt that this is really the case, since your LLC owns the vehicle does not make it a commercial use vehicle. Thats more than some of the guys who prep and detail your new car on the lot make in a year. There is no sales tax on a regular home sale. They are bureaucrats and they focus on everything. But thats still a drop in the bucket compared to the potential immediate tax savings you can get by registering high-value cars, trucks, busses, and RVs in Montana. Others say inspectors cruise RV storage facilities facilities and actively look for vehicles with Montana plates. When did any state achieve authority over another for teaching a titled and registered vehicleof that state. Montana Limited Liability Companies. So, if you truly want to leave your cares behind when you choose the full-time RV lifestyle, I recommend staying informed and remain certain that you are following the proper procedures to avoid future legal problems. In fact, about one out of every 16 of all McLaren P1s ever made on the planet just happen to be registered in Montana. Why don't you talk to the guys in Montana that are actually doing this. It would only work in situations where the motorhome is owned free and clear because obtaining financing for such an arrangement would be difficult. Blog Corporation buys the vehicle. This means that the LLC itself does not pay taxes and does not have to file a return with the IRS. Essentially, it works like this: You form an LLC business in Montana. It WILL save you money! Taxing a car multiple times is the same as stealing. If you drive your RV to another state every three months, they interpret that as keeping the motorhome in your home state for no more than 90 consecutive days. Or maybe you can give others some advice? Then you can be in trouble. Thank you for our RVing community and this forum. Join us after the 62nd Escapade for 10 relaxing days of ocean-view camping and activities in Mexico including a sunset cruise, a tequila tasting, a paint & sip session at a local tapas bar, a day of fun at Mannys Beach Club, yoga classes on the beach, optional deep-sea fishing and ATV tours, and much more! Another good reason I moved from CA. Of course WA looked like FL after the King County voting mess last year. Worthless. We would have been quite upset if someone had us have to go thru a lot of paperwork for nothing with everything else that was going on. Or the solution might possibly be to move to a state where there is no sales tax like NH, but the "registration" fees there are very high. Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free! California law says that you have to register the car within 20 days of entry into California. As one Montana lawyer in the LLC-creating business explained (in response to questions about the validity of the Montana plates where the owners are Texas domiciled): The best approach for a Texas resident operating a vehicle owned by a Montana LLC is to limit his/her time in Texas.. I suspect you are also outing yourself with the state in terms of where the car is located and I am sure that no good deed will go unpunished. Kali also has the worst maintained roads in the west. A luxury sedan or sports car, on the other hand, is much more easily hidden than an RV. A super car claim will get sent to a special underwriting desk for special scrutiny. Id have to agree that in California I have seen cops pull you over for those plates and with the emission and loud exhaust being a big deal. At least they used to be. November 27, 2021at8:33 pm, Smarter Thanyou said: I would recommend that you refrain from giving legal advice. CA has a hotline to report this. Its tough being a minority here. Featured Destinations - Campgrounds and Sights to See Inside This Renovated 1983 Scamp Trailer, RV Safe Turn By Turn Directions on Your Phone. Have you considered that the money grab by the states isnt exactly moral? in 5 years or so it was a break even. So what, you live and work in California and you are cheating the system. We already have contract to rent. What is IFTA? Ridiculous. I need to say here that a great many RVers have taken advantage of the Montana law with no issues. Actually, they have Apportioned plates from Arizona. For about 2 years we were quite legal with having MI plates on the vehicles while we were in CA. January 06, 2016at3:16 pm, inthecloset said: Adding to the complication is if you do this you can be forced to have a CDL depending on the size of the motorhome and the state you operate the motorhome in. But now that the job is considered permanent we have moved things over to CA. As a PS. The biggest bite in buying an RV in one of the high tax states comes in the form of a use tax, or sales tax. Every dime related is written off. You really need to go with an agent and carrier who understands the luxury and high-value car market, and who knows how to write these policies up so that theyll stick. Is there a loophole for those who do Montana LLC RV Titling? January 05, 2016at12:07 pm, Rico Muscatel said: For full-timers without a permanent residence, you can pick up a mailbox in Florida and be good to go. Not all California residents with out-of-state plates are intentionally avoiding registering with the DMV . Since you have a rental agreement with the MT LLC, do you need to file a tax return for the LLC. So, if you head out of state after 89 days, they claim, youre good. Many times I stop people for speeding and see the California driver's license and the vehicle is registered in Arizona. Giving more money to already inefficient people doesnt make them (government) suddenly more efficient. October 18, 2021at10:32 pm, Dr. Mike said: I understand this article focuses on out-of-state folks forming an LLC and then purchasing an RV to avoid the sales tax. So, they headed for Texas, driving the RV and towing their Jeep. I loved the specifics Does someone know where I could possibly grab a template FL HSMV 85008 form to use ? Other states with high sales taxes and ad valoremtaxes on car sales and registrations have woken up to the fact that theyre losing millions in tax revenue. My first thought after reading the title was "doug demuro ", He's in California, but nonetheless, good on him. Whatever. I pay income tax to the state and federal government. Testimonials. File an Affidavit o f Domicile with the court; Change to local businesses for banking, accountants, doctors and dentists; Have your estate planning documents (wills, trusts an d powers o f attorney) written i n Texas; If you still have real estate outside o f Texas, rent the real estate o r otherwise sho w that you arent using it as your hub., All The Things You Need To Know About Domicile As An RVer. Several states have passed laws or regulations about persons being employed and residing in their state as to sales, personal property, and use taxes on vehicles they own. Um no thanks. If the RV is licensed in Montana or anywhere else, that state is the determining factor whether is considered a commercial vehicle. An LLC offers limited . I don't cheat on these things but will be d@@med if I report someone. What business do you actually conduct in Montana? Regardless, the law is the same, if you bring it back to Texas, you will need to pay use/sales tax. Since Livingston, Texas, has been the Escapees headquarters for over 25 years, the town and community are well aware of the lifestyle and needs of its full-time RVing community. Then theyll look at everything. There is no free lunch however. Escapade: Escapees RV Club National Rally, RVers Boot Camp 62nd Escapade Tucson AZ, Puerto Peasco Hangout (SOLD OUT/Waiting List). And to the one comment about taking advantage of perks but not wanting to pay. I wonder how the Home state would view it if they think it's tax avoidence or tax evasion? There are special rules for writing off expenses. Totally agree. And hey, Its not like that money is going to the kids detailing the car on the lot, anyway. After arriving in Livingston, they visited Escapees RV Club national headquarters where they obtained their new Texas address. This is exactly what Ive been wondering. Adhering to the advice of legal counsel will provide you with peace of mind and worry-free RV travels. In December 2007, a man named Robert Thomas bought a $351,800 RV at the Dixie RV Super Store in the city of Hammond in his home state of Louisiana. All states have rules about how long a vehicle can be in the state in the possession of a resident before it needs to be registered. I have a feeling u/Doug-DeMuro will be satisfied to know that he registered his Ford GT properly(Context). Shame on those who are so cheap they scheme to avoid paying a few hundred dollars in taxes to the detriment of all their fellow home state residents, particularly the elderly and poor kids who most depend on tax support! Hi Steve. Press J to jump to the feed. Resources mentioned in this video: Catch more great investing & business tips on our YouTube channel Even if you win, you lose. Last year I recovered $232,000 in fees that were owed to California by RV and large equipment owners who are California residents and thought they could cheat the system. Montana Llc Crackdown . As our Victoria Guida writes, this represents "the broadest and most concrete effort to date by the U.S. government to consider whether the Fed should issue a digital dollar.". Regardless of if you own a vehicle or not or if youve maintained having prior insurance. I pay the taxes because if my son thinks the situation is dodgy, I will go with his judgement. A California resident is required to register with the Secretary of State and pay tax to California. Isn't IFTA federal? Jalpa44 Rookie Mar 10, 2015 1 #4 Nov 14, 2016 Hello, Bless the folks that can avoid the rip off! Thats why we have written our RV Buying Secrets Guide. Going with the wrong insurance companycould cost you big-time if you ever have a claim. 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